When I once posted the statement ...
I never thought that I would ever have to say that 'human sacrifices to Kali' were now occurring again, but we live in ever more regressive times ....
In more recent times the worshippers of the Hindu Goddess Kali in India, known as ‘Thuggee’s’ were known to kill humans for religion, and used a ritualistic method of strangling (that also kept the noise down), wherever possible. They were wiped out in the 19th century.
In reality Thuggee groups might be Hindu, Sikh or Muslim, but 'Thuggee' is particularly associated with followers of the Hindu Goddess Kali (or Durga), whom they often called Bhavani."
In reality Thuggee groups might be Hindu, Sikh or Muslim, but 'Thuggee' is particularly associated with followers of the Hindu Goddess Kali (or Durga), whom they often called Bhavani."
I never thought that I would ever have to say that 'human sacrifices to Kali' were now occurring again, but we live in ever more regressive times ....
But here we go, in India a severed head and torso of a man has been found
in a temple in the Indian state of West Bengal in what the police say
is a case of "human sacrifice". The body and head were found at the local temple to the goddess Kali
near Chotomakdampur village in the western district of Birbhum.
Further investigation shows that these sacrifices have been going on for a while .... there was one of these human sacrifices in 2003 in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh. On that occasion a priest had murdered a low caste Hindu, or Dalit, to please the village goddess in Parsari village of Sagar district.
Oddly in both reports the BBC reporter feels its important to point out that "Human sacrifice is illegal in India," as though that's a sign of how modern India is, that its actually illegal to make human sacrifices, or even that if it hadn't been then it would have been somehow OK or 'cultural' so still alright.
Actually, the practise of "Nara bali" as human sacrifices are known, was never made illegal by Indians, it was the British who did so, and the law remained on the statutes after the colonial era in 1948 .... it appears that some Indians would like to revert back to a more simple and religious time, like sacrificing 'low caste' humans to Kali.
We truly live at the end of Western values and civilisation.
Update 2012: There have been more killings reported.
New Update 2018:
As this post gains a large number of hits, I felt obliged to update it with more up-to-date information.
In Brief; The killings continue despite denials in comments from Indians below. A brief list from the last 20 years (and there will be more unreported outside of the local press):
The reason for these killings is best summarised by the Police chief of Bihar, Umkant Sahay, who had this to say about sacrifices for Kali:
"We have tried our best to curb human sacrifices, but what can an agency do when an entire village chooses a victim and cuts off his head with his parent’s consent? Human sacrifice under our law is treated as murder, but the killer – never found – is always the local high priest. At times the local policemen are reluctant to take action because of the inbred fear of the gods and goddesses."
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| Kali Sacrifices |
Further investigation shows that these sacrifices have been going on for a while .... there was one of these human sacrifices in 2003 in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh. On that occasion a priest had murdered a low caste Hindu, or Dalit, to please the village goddess in Parsari village of Sagar district.
Oddly in both reports the BBC reporter feels its important to point out that "Human sacrifice is illegal in India," as though that's a sign of how modern India is, that its actually illegal to make human sacrifices, or even that if it hadn't been then it would have been somehow OK or 'cultural' so still alright.
Actually, the practise of "Nara bali" as human sacrifices are known, was never made illegal by Indians, it was the British who did so, and the law remained on the statutes after the colonial era in 1948 .... it appears that some Indians would like to revert back to a more simple and religious time, like sacrificing 'low caste' humans to Kali.
We truly live at the end of Western values and civilisation.
Update 2012: There have been more killings reported.
New Update 2018:
As this post gains a large number of hits, I felt obliged to update it with more up-to-date information.
In Brief; The killings continue despite denials in comments from Indians below. A brief list from the last 20 years (and there will be more unreported outside of the local press):
- 2002 - India's North-Eastern state of Assam - Human sacrifice revived. BBC.
- 2003 - Uttar Pradesh - 6 year old kidnapped and sacrificed. Washington Post.
- 2006 - Province of Khurja, Uttar Pradesh - A 3 year old abducted and sacrificed. The Guardian.
- 2010 - Bolpur in West Bengal's Birbhum district. - The beheaded body of a 35-year-old man was found outside the temple of Goddess Kali. Times of India.
- 2011 - Chattisgarh State - 7 year-old Indian girl, was dismembered to bring a good harvest. Dailymail.
- 2012 - Guwahati, Assam - A man's severed head discovered on a road leading to the ancient Kamakhya temple was found in a plastic bag along with a piece of paper that had religious hymns written on it. Police said that it could be a case of human sacrifice. Hindustan Times.
- 2013 - Mumbai India - A 50-year-old Indian woman has been killed in a human sacrifice ritual by six people, including a tantric, in Nalasopara, a suburb of India's commercial capital, Mumbai in 2013. Times of India.
- 2013 - Vidarbah area of Maharashtra - 10 year old sacrificed by grandmother. Daily Bhaskar.com
- 2014 - Bihar - Father sacrificed his 15-month-old daughter to find a treasure buried in the ruins of a nearby fortress. The father is a Pesh Imam at Firozabad mosque and hails from Bihar. Times of India.
- 2014 - Wadar Vasti area in Wardha - a man abducted the nine-year-old son of an acquaintance, killed him and ate his body parts to acquire “special powers” to recover “hidden treasures”. Indianexpress
- 2015 - Prakasam district of Andhra Pradesh state - A four-year-old boy was beheaded as a "human sacrifice" offering the child's blood to Goddess Kali by man seeking "divine powers". Times of India.
- and Telegraph.
- 2015 - Nepal - 11 arrested following ‘human sacrifice’ in Nepal. The Hindu.
- 2016 - Upper Assam, India - 'Black witch priest' in India dismembers 4-year-old in sacrifice to find teen's missing cellphone. NZ Herald.
- 2016 - Chiraideo districts of Assam - Four-year-old boy sacrificed to appease a deity. Deccan Chronicle.
- 2017 - South Indian state of Karnataka - Child was killed on the instructions of a "sorcerer" to "cure" a paralysed man. BBC.
- 2017 - Western Indian state of Maharashtra - Six-year-old murdered in an act of human sacrifice – committed to gain the favour of a goddess. SCMP.com
The reason for these killings is best summarised by the Police chief of Bihar, Umkant Sahay, who had this to say about sacrifices for Kali:
"We have tried our best to curb human sacrifices, but what can an agency do when an entire village chooses a victim and cuts off his head with his parent’s consent? Human sacrifice under our law is treated as murder, but the killer – never found – is always the local high priest. At times the local policemen are reluctant to take action because of the inbred fear of the gods and goddesses."
Update 2022:
More sacrificial killings are reported from the southern Indian state of Kerala, where three people ....
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| Three Black Magic Believers |
Bhagaval Singh - an ayurvedic "healer," his wife Laila, and Mohammed Shafi, an "occult practitioner" from Idukki district, were arrested for the murder of two women as a part of a suspected ritual done for "financial benefits". This is not the first such crime, and it won't be the last.
Dear Mr. No-PC,
ReplyDeleteI am not sure how much you know about Kali-worship in particular, and Hindu traditions in general. Therefore, it may be necessary for me to clear up some doubts for you.
In 1922, Sir John Woodcroffe published Swami Vimalananda's commentary on the hymn to Kali. In the preface to his commentary, he writes:
"This leads one to point out that the Hymn has other than these gross (Sthūla) meanings. In Brāhamanism everything has three aspects—Supreme (Para), Subtle (Sūkṣma) and Gross (Sthūla). Thus the nineteenth Śloka when referring to the sacrifice of various animals and of man himself intends according to the subtle sense the six great sins for which they stand, ranging from Lust (goat) to Pride (man). It is these which must be sacrificed by the knowers who are worshippers of the Mother the age of material sacrifice, so universal throughout the world, having passed away."
As you can see, Kali-Maa does not ACTUALLY want sacrifices. She just wants people to give up their pride (and other sins). (Of course, that doesn't stop people from misinterpreting her commands...)
Thanks for the comment ... Obviously these modern interpreters of Kali's wishes are not fully understanding the 'subtle sense' in which her wishes are to meant to be interpreted.
ReplyDeleteMaybe there's a reason, other than secrecy, why these are in isolated areas? Just ill educated priests?
Dear Mr. No-PC,
ReplyDeleteI apologize for the late reply.
Most Kali-worshipers belong to a sect of Hinduism called "Tantrism". Actually, it's somewhat inaccurate to call it a "Hindu sect", because they have their own scriptures.
Within Tantrism, there's a right-hand path and a left-hand path. Right-handed tantriks, for the most part, try to adhere to Hindu social norms. They would interpret "human sacrifice" the way Swami Vimalananda did (quoted above).
Left-handed tantriks, however, seek "enlightenment" by defying social norms. These are the people who engage in animal (and sometimes human) sacrifices. These are also the people who engage in "Tantric sex".
Left or Right handed, it makes little difference to the victims. However maybe one of you could explain why the killings have suddenly re-emerged again after all this time, or did it never really go away?
ReplyDeleteAre the 'victims' volunteers or just unlucky?
PP I am afraid that I am not able to answer your questions and we will both have to hope that our expert comes back with an answer.
ReplyDeleteDear Peter Perfect,
ReplyDeleteI apologize for the late reply.
Don't worry-- the victims are all voluntary.
It says so in this article.
Dear Mr. No-PC,
ReplyDeleteI did some more research on this topic, and I learned some REALLY interesting things.
As you may know, the Rig Veda (one of the most sacred texts of Hinduism) describes a conflict between two groups of humans: the Aryans and the Dasas/Dasyus/Panis.
Until very recently, it was assumed that the enemies of the Vedic Aryans were the Dravidian-speaking inhabitants of the Indus Valley Civilization. However, there were some problems with this theory. First of all, the cities of the IVC show no signs of violent conquest. Second, they don't match the layouts of the Dasa strongholds.
Asko Parpola writes the following on page 367 of The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia:
"Important clues to an archaeological understanding of the Rgvedic invasion are provided by the references to the enemies of the Rgvedic Aryans. Indra and his protégés, namely the earliest Rgvedic kings, are said to have destroyed the strongholds of these enemies. When Sir Mortimer Wheeler unearthed the huge defensive walls of Harappa in 1946, he identified the Dasa forts as the fortified of the Indus Civilization (Wheeler 1947: 78-82). This hypothesis was widely accepted until 1976, when Rau published his study of relevant Vedic passages which showed that, unlike the rectangular layout of the Indus cities, the Dasa forts had circular, and often multiple concentric, walls. Moreover, the Dasa forts were not regularly inhabited cities but functioned as temporary shelters, particularly for the protection of cattle. I have argued that the Dasas, Dasyus, and Panis were actually Indo-Iranian speaking BMAC tribes, and that the battles against them described in the Rgveda took place in and around northern Bactria, before entrance to Gandhara on the eastern side of the Hindukush (Parpola 1988: 208-218)."
In other words, the enemies of the Vedic Aryans were the inhabitants of a previously-unknown civilization called the "Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex" which flourished in Northern Afghanistan and Southern Turkmenistan from 2500-1500 BC.
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteNow, you may ask, what religion did these Dasas follow?
Asko Parpola writes the following on page 370 of the same book:
"The word tripura (three-walled fort) has important religious implications. I shall only briefly deal with the religion of the BMAC, which I have examined elsewhere (Parpola 1988: 251-264; also Parpola 1992, 1993, in press). There is widespread evidence for the worship of a goddess connected with lions (for a new BMAC seal with this motif see Sarianidi 1993c), ultimately going back to the traditions of the ancient Near East. Connections with the later Indian worship of Durga, the goddess of victory and fertility escorted by a lion or tiger, the protectress of the stronghold (Durga), are suggested by several things. The ground plan of the Dashly-3 “palace” is strikingly similar to the Tantric mandala (Brentjes 1981; Brentjes 1986: 234; Brentjes 1987: 128f.), the ritual “palace” of the god or goddess in the Hindu cult. A Bactrian seal depicting copulating pairs, both human and animal, reminds one of the orgies associated with the principal festival of the goddess. Wine is associated with the cult of the goddess and may have been enjoyed from the fabulous drinking cups made from silver and gold found in Bactria and Baluchistan, for viticulture is an integral part of the BMAC (Miller 1993: 151, 154). Durga is worshipped in eastern India as Tripura, a name which connects her with the strongholds of the Dasas.
Of course, the Sakta tradition of eastern India is far removed from Bactria and the Dasas both temporally and geographically. But the distance between these two traditions can be bridged by means of Vedic and Epic evidence relating to Vratya religion and archaeologically by the strong resemblance between the antennae-hilted swords from BMAC sites in Bactria and the Gangetic Copper Hoards (c. 1700-1500 BC). The linguistic data associated with the Dasas also link them with the easternmost branch of Middle Indo-Aryan, the Magadhi Prakrit. The age-and-area principle of anthropology suggests that the earliest wave of Indo-Aryans was the first to reach the other end of the Subcontinent."
In other words, the inhabitants of the BMAC worshipped a goddess who, like Durga/Kali, was associated with Tantric sex.
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteAnd that wasn't all that they did.
On page 176 of The Strange World of Human Sacrifice, Asko Parpola writes the following:
"A lion-escorted martial goddess imported from the Near East is depicted on the seals of the “Bactria and Margiana Archaeological Complex” (=BMAC) of the Bronze Age (c. 2500-1500 BC) in Afghanistan and Turkmenistan; she apparently kept her Sumerian name Nana(ya) for two millennia, as her counterpart worshipped in Afghanistan in Kusana times was so called, and is worshipped in Afghanistan even nowadays as “Bibi Nanni”. This BMAC culture interacted with the Indus Civilization, and may be a principal source of the “Gangetic Copper Hoards”. A BMAC-type cylinder seal from the Harappan site Kalibangan bears an Indus inscription and a tiger-escorted goddess in the midst of two warriors spearing each other. Vedic texts show Vac (“Voice, Speech”) as a goddess of war identified with the lioness and connected with the Vratyas. The Vedic vratyastomas were performed before and after raiding expeditions, and closely resemble the later Hindu navaratri festivals of Goddess Durga, which involve sexual license and feasting with the meat of many different sacrificial animals. The Vedic lists of “unclean” animals (to be released) agree with Puranic lists of victims pleasing the goddess; in both cases, a human victim as the most appreciated offering heads the list."
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteThere are some very interesting conclusions that can be drawn from this data:
1) The Hindu goddess known as Durga/Kali is none other than the Sumerian goddess Inanna/Ishtar.
2) She was worshiped by the enemies of the Vedic Aryans.
3) Her cult involved sex, violence, and alcohol consumption.
Well thank you 'Anonymous' for that very comprehensive answer .... I am particularly relieved that the victims are all 'voluntary'.
ReplyDeleteIt makes a it a sort of 'assisted suicide' then.
Well I guess that answers the question but doesn't say if it has been going on secretly all the time ...
ReplyDeleteI expect it will happen again sometime in the future, if only because some idiots still believe in gods ...
Dear Mr. No-PC,
ReplyDeleteYou might need to correct your blog post. You wrote "We truly live at the end of Western values and civilisation."
I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but human sacrifice was actually quite prevalent throughout the West before the spread of Christianity.
The Celts would burn people inside giant wicker structures. The Norse would hang people outside of their temple at Uppsala. The Romans, whom many Westerners consider to be the pinnacle of civilization, didn't formally abolish it until 97 BCE.
"I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but human sacrifice was actually quite prevalent throughout the West before the spread of Christianity.
ReplyDeleteThe Celts would burn people inside giant wicker structures. The Norse would hang people outside of their temple at Uppsala. The Romans, whom many Westerners consider to be the pinnacle of civilization, didn't formally abolish it until 97 BCE."
Actually I am aware of these facts and I discuss human sacrifce at some length on another post Beheadings and human sacrifice to Gods .... but this post was about humans ritually sacrificed to a god last year in India... not a thousand years ago or more, so I consider the statement "We truly live at the end of Western values and civilisation." to be totally relevant to the posted story.
When you look at the world in which we live, its hard not to conclude that the Western Liberalism on the post war era, and which seemed to be slowly spreading around the world, isn't now in reverse, with old style religions such as Islam and some strands of Hinduism returning, along with the practises which seemed to be gown.
Who's prepared to bet that we won't see a widow thrown on to the flames in a revial of 'Suttee' before the end of this century if the trends continue?
Dear Mr. No-PC,
ReplyDeleteDid you actually read the Wikipedia article that you linked to? It contains a section called "Current incidence", which explicitly states "Sati still occurs, albeit rarely, in the rural areas."
BTW, do you consider "dying for the Motherland" to be a "Western value"? I was doing some more research on the Kali cult, and I came across some interesting information.
From page 269 of Violence Denied: Violence, Non-Violence, and the Rationalization of Violence:
"The text of the Kalika Purana makes it very clear that human sacrifice is considered as an ‘exceedingly great oblation’, which is only permitted when the country is in great danger and war is expected. The sacrifice can only be carried out with the official permission of the king."
In other words, human sacrifice to Kali is only permitted when the country is in danger and you need her help to defeat your enemies. Not surprisingly, her cult saw a spike in popularity during the British occupation. From page 86 of Tantra: sex, secrecy, politics, and power in the study of religion:
"This monstrous fusion of religious fanaticism and subversive activities had reached its terrifying fruition in the revolutionary nationalist groups of the twentieth century. As the Rowlatt Commission of 1918 reported, the revolutionary outrages in Bengal were 'the outcome of a widespread movement of perverted religion and equally perverted patriotism.' Calling upon the terrible mother Kali for power, worshiping her with orgiastic violence, and even 'sacrificing the white goats' of British officials to the goddess, they threatened the moral and political fabric of the colonial state itself. In many accounts, the nationalist movement is described as nothing less than a pervasive secret organization combining mysticism and political subversion—an 'underground murder cult' comprised of a 'strange mélange of Masonic ritual and a festival of horrible furious Kali in her wilder aspects.'"
As you can see, morality goes straight out the window when things like nationalism are involved...
Humans are Fuel for Fire
DeleteAs for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)
Burn Nonbelievers
"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Alvin I - I am happy for debate and comment but quoting verse after verse of the Bible is at best 'over kill' for your point - that the Old Testament is full of passages which taken out of context apparently support many things that are not taught as part of that faith now.
DeleteSacrifice was part of early Judaism and Christianity with the most obvious being when God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac, on Mount Moriah ..... I think everyone gets the point (even if its not really relevant to the recent upsurge of human sacrifice in India).
I have therefore deleted the other comments about Jesus being Lucifer etc .... please don't attempt to repost them.
Anonymous - thanks for all your comments ... much to think about.
ReplyDeleteFeel free to contribute comments on other posts but please use a name, even if only a pseudonym!
It's certainly not true that all the victims are volunteers, and I would hazard to guess that none are. Read these two articles, which describes actual cases of human sacrifice and that will become clear.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,322673,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver
Human sacrifice is voluntarily, the text stats oly men. Not women, or children,then its murder.
DeleteThere are rules to Human sacrifice:
First, I would suggest that human sacrifice is not a universal concept found in all religions. Certainly, not all people of all religions would want to partake. But, to others, it might replace something missing in their religion; it might be very spiritually beneficial. Of course, the idea wouldn’t be, “Now, you all MUST perform human sacrifice!” but merely, “If it is/was a part of your religion, you can under these circumstances.”
Secondly, sacrifices should remain within individual religions, and not cross barriers. If a particular religion wanted to practice it, they would have to take sacrifices from their own members (on one exception which I will discuss in the benefits section). This would prevent sacrifice from becoming an excuse for religious persecution.
Third, sacrifices must be voluntary. Religious leaders could not demand it from their followers. Most people in this culture would instantly question who would want to be sacrificed, but that question is merely the result of the American mindset, which all too often is spiritually lethargic and terrified of death. To give a relatively easy to understand example here (more will be discussed in the next section), perhaps a person dying from a disease would rather die in honor of their god than in a hospital, or through suicide.
(http://www.amoxtli.org/cuezali/spaper.html).
A Christian Apologist tries to defend sacrifice.“It's not a sin if God commands it in this case, because God - being our Creator - has the prerogative to take whichever life He chooses (e.g., Job said, "God giveth and God taketh away"). Killing becomes murder when it is done in improper circumstances and with malice.”Although this statement is meant to defend the actions of the Judeo-Christian god, I argue that it may be used in reference to the gods of any religion. While I am certain that Dave Armstrong wouldn’t agree with me here, I actually agree with him, though equally in reference to all religions and cultures. To properly discuss the morality of human sacrifice is it necessary to do so without bias towards any particular god or religion. Since I’m not here to argue why it’s okay for Yahweh but no one else, but rather to argue about the concept of human sacrifice in general, my statements will refer to all religions which have practiced sacrifice.
Alvin I - See post rules ("please try to make any comment relevant to the post") ... So I have deleted all the extra Bible quotes posts about castration as they are off the point .... please don't attempt to repost them. Also again, the point about the Bible is acceptable, but doesn't need multiple comments quoting passages from the Christian Bible to make it. The post comment above is sufficient to get your point made.
DeleteI guess that if you believe in 'all cultural values' being of equal value as the PC lefties insist, then killing people in some sort of sacrifice to your gods, whether they were willing or not, is not going to be a crime, or against 'western liberal values' for long.
ReplyDeleteThis would apply to Thugee and Sutee practises, as well as the beheadings, and other killings handed out on our streets by Muslims, to those who they think have 'offended Islam. If you don't believe me, read this story, of four men who the judge said 'remained a danger to the public', to see how this sort crime is being practiced in the UK.
Its not going to be long before 'sacrifices' are performed in the UK .... its just a matter of time.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteA distorted bit of Hindu rewriting of history, spoiled by a couple of inconvenient truths.
Delete1. The India McCauley saw was a version sanitised by local (mainly Muslim) rulers when he was visiting.
2. India as a country didn't and had never existed, it was a sub-continent made up of dozens of smaller kingdoms and the Mughals in the north. The first all sub-continent Hindu dominated country is the direct legacy of the British Raj. Live with it and stop bitching on about 'What did the British ever do for us? .... a lot actually.
I would have left your off topic blatant bullshit propaganda post up, because the use of 'The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly' film music as background music made me laugh (for reasons that a nationalist asshole wouldn't get) ... but the tone of the video is racially offensive and religiously intolerant. It would also possibly be illegal to post this in the UK.
The topic concerns me, but it doesn't strike me as unique or unbalanced.
ReplyDeleteI concur, PC is an anathema of the 4th international, but I take issue with "human sacrifice is not a universal concept found in all religions." I'm afraid it is.
Re: Kali sacrifices. After much research, on Shivan influence on the western "bible," it's canon in the background of all "civilized" beliefs. Still, it disturbs me that our faith originally based on on the sanctity of life should devolve into this. Sure, Jainism became Kalish under Hinduism because she was goddess of creation, the counterpart to Shiva prior to the demonization, recognizing that all gods are PIE loan gods.
Surely present day Christians, Jews and Muslims must reject open commendation of human sacrifice in their texts, especially that of children, and if so, then millions of Kalish can without abandoning the overall faith, which is superior to the alternatives. See, I can be not PC, too :)
I make no defense sacrificing males in defense of a nation, but how is it different from any army, esp. w/ suicide missions. Everyone is implicated here. Even Shintoism came up with Kamikazes. Any "western faith" or "age of reason" civilization has done far worse. It's like PC: to will away anything "uncivilized" to bring an "age of reason" on the world, creating socialism, slaughtering 400 million or so or billions more if you include abortion, which we would, as would any other faith. American "capitalism" is just another machiavellian totalitarian rampant genocide anywhere the western powers do not yet control.
Just to point out individual islamic "honor killings," christian "exoricisms" and judean "molech" sacrices still happen on a regular basis, so even without the genocides you still have massive numbers of unwilling sacrifices. Without faith, the species is definitely worse. The modern civilized world is surely the most brutally bloody barbaric construction ever created. We also know that Kalish worship dates back to the dawn of written history, first appearing in Ukraine 12,000 years ago. It is not about to disappear just because someone thinks it's tasteless.
My goal here isn't to rationalize away human sacrifice but to discourage it.
I don't know why my google isn't appearing here.
- Kalika
Thanks for the comment Kalika. You obviously make a number of points.
DeleteHowever could I suggest that you do a little more reading on comparative religions, before commenting on their practices.
The blood libel against the Jews is a known fraud, and even when referred to as "Molech Sacrifices" is still nonsense. In fact 'Molech' is the Biblical name of a Canaanite god (or possibly the name of an ancient form of propitiatory child sacrifice by parents, for the Canaanite god), and is not 'Jehovah' the Jewish God.
You also refer to Christian "exorcisms". Exorcisms are the religious or spiritual practice of purportedly evicting demons or other spiritual entities from either a person or an area such as a house, where they are believed to have possessed. Depending on the spiritual beliefs of the exorcist, this may be done by causing the entity to swear an oath, performing an elaborate ritual, or simply by commanding it to depart in the name of a higher power. The practice is ancient and part of the belief systems of very many cultures and religions, but does not involve the sacrifice of the victim of the possession .... again a poor reference if you want all your points to be taken seriously.
But in any event, the references in the Old Testament (the Jewish Torah), which is shared by both Christians and Jews e.g. When God asks Abraham to 'sacrifice' his son Isaac on Mount Moriah, are to events several thousand years ago. However the point of the posted story was that the 'sacrifice' was not carried out. That the God didn't make him carry it out. The Muslims claim that Abraham was actually called Ibraham, and was actually 'Muslim', even though he was Jewish and born thousands of years before Islam ... like many, I find this idea hard to follow.
However the Kali sacrifices referred to in this posting are happening again now, in modern India. So its not a like for like comparison.
With regards to other groups sacrifices (such as 'Kamikazes' ... a good reference by the way, and one I didn't think of), I discuss the history of Human Sacrifices in different cultures in this linked post.
Again thanks for the comment ... this is an old posting, and I didn't expect further comments (especially as I was forced to remove a racist one). I do try to respond to every comment, where they seem to invite it. But with so many posts, its hard to keep up conversation threads from years ago, so apologies if I didn't pick up all your points.
No PC
ReplyDeleteThanks for the quick response
I'm very familiar with religions, these are just jibes. Scattered thoughts:
Molech is derived from Hebrew Mesha is Father. Mesha of Moab's sacrifice of his first born son. mlk, lmlk & mlkm in scripture are all molech, mlk is king , also god as kings were divine, (king Zebub is Ba'al's Zebub becomes Beelzebub ) Jezebel is more complicated. mlkm, is their king, god so a foreign deity, not YHWH, All others, Chemosh* etc. would be molech. lmlk is to the king so sacrifice re: Mesha.
* meaning the destroyer, as in Shiva, known to the egyptians as Shina , etc. Later he becomes Baphomet, (who shines) much later, Masonic.
The term Jews is complicated. Ref. Judah, Yahudah, dah,dan,stan,land. Yahu, people of Yah* the egyptian moon god. Hence YHWH, Yahweh, and Jehovah, (I am comes later)
* the name Moses uses when he descends from Mt. Sinai. (from Shina)
But of 12 tribes, Judah is only one. Jew to mean all Hebrew people is a mid-19th c. neo-culturalism. Hebrew sacrifices I ref'd are not of Judah or Israel, but real occultist sacrifices. Sure, rare, but all are. Arguably termination of teen pregnancy is also Mesha's molech. I digress.
Corruption of scripture:
The Hebrew OT, edited in the 4th c. BC by monotheists, denies other gods. Thus instead of sea god Enki causing the flood in jealousy over God's creation of Man, God attacks his own imperfect creation. A paradox? An omnipotent, flawless being makes a mistake.
This God is still in conflict. Freemasons claim Baphomet & Lilith; Zionists have YHWH. Netanyahu has Yah, like Moses, (referencing Assyrian & Egyptian). Yet Israel, mortal enemy of Judah, (another paradox?) in hebrew: to serve God was created by Assyria, so in Aramaic: Chosen Land of God. In either, God is El who borrowed 7 days from Anu, who is time, to create the heaven and earth and sea and all that in them is. That's very different from the origin of YHWH.
Polytheism IMHO make more liturgical sense. Multiple forces are at work, regardless of which one chooses to worship, others exist.
On Christian exorcisms .
I know what exorcism is. Still, fundies in N+S America, kill in religious rituals to driving out demons. A thin cover for homicide? the same perhaps for all of faiths?
All are rare, but nuts resorting to scripture does not automatically condemn scripture. The Manson Family cited the White Album. If you listen, that does make some sense, but they're still insane. Also, Chapman shot Lennon after a vision of Buddha. Nothing in Buddhism supports killing musicians, but it supports visionary inspirations.
As Isa would say He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone. No faith is without seeds for horrific crimes. Witch trials in Britain, Salem are just the tip of an inquisition on the scale of the holocaust.
Other thoughts: Abraham and Isaac aside, there are millions sacrificed in the OT.
Are scattered Kali sacrifices in modern India different from christian fundies sacrificing their children because thought to be possessed, or purging of sorcery in Subsaharan Africa. Or honor killings among the Muslim. Is this religious lunacy, or just crime? Why is Ciudad Juarez a Civil War but Michigan only a Crime Wave? Surely both tops conflicts in Ukraine, Israel, Kashmir, etc.
Kali worship is not minor or obscure. It dwarfs Judaism, if it were a Christian sect, it would be second only to Catholicism. Also, denigration of Kali in the 8th c., edits to the Purana by the 12th c. places practices in a decided negative light. The driving out to Sri Lanka, Rajastan, etc, and the Kalish(Romani), (later caught in the holocaust) and redefining Kalish as Untouchable perhaps was more about environmental stances?
For an interesting if more lighthearted take on the matter, search on: e04b0156c661
Hi ... I am not convinced that I really understand the point you are making in relation to Kali sacrifices in modern India? For instance just because Hebrew was the language of the Torah and Moloch was a Hebrew name for the Canaanite god or practices, it doesn't follow that they worshipped him or practised human sacrifices.
DeleteBBC Links
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8624269.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2892333.stms
If only you had posted earlier when 'Alvin' (a prolific Bible quoter), or the anonymous Indian poster, had been in their pomp (then you would have been on your own Ha ha), you would have plenty of responses, but sadly I can't start opening the subject the nature and origins of belief systems or the etymology of the names of gods. Mainly as the post was years ago, and I have long forgotten the research I did, so you have me at a fatal disadvantage.
Still, thanks again for posting the comments.
Sorry, I took off on your comment that I should look into the topic more.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I love your page. I think you make many good points, and I like your symptoms of false flag attacks. I could use an apologist argument and say perhaps the racist govt. of India has staged these itself (possible, like the US in middle east) but I agree with you: No PC, and also I believe no "convenient" excuses. So perhaps a few loons have the wrong idea.
Clear up a few points.
First, there's no canaanite god Moloch. Perhaps some worship occurred, particularly in 16th c europe, but this is a misunderstanding.
MLK means king, like Maliki, or Malcolm. As kings were divine or descended from divinity, they were also gods. In Hebrew there are three forms:
mlk: king, or god
mlkm: their king, or a (false) god, but could be anyone, chemosh, baphomet, ba'al, etc.
lmlk: to the king, or to god, hence, sacrifice.
The word is derived from the sacrifice of King Mesha of Moab, who placed his first born son (or some child) on the altar of Chemosh, and lowering him into the fire, indicating his people should do the same. A skeptic might call this population control.
Conspiracy sites might show something like Bohemian Grove's Owl as a Shrine to Molech. An owl is Lilith, bride of Baphomet, (who rejected adam in the garden etc.) Now it's possible occultists offer the molech, the sacrifice of a child, to this statue, and there have been cases, but this is on a very wealthy estate.
Which brings me to my point.
The attitude towards Kalish by Brahman over the last millennia has hardly been Fair and Balanced. There's no evidence this has changed. When the source is a govt. that still denies rights to 200 million including education, healthcare, public assistance and protection from discrimination re employment, pardon me for being skeptical of their motives.
It's not obscure. The total Kalish population of the world exceeds that of the USA. The govt. of India has been actually at war with these sects since independence. If any other nation treated a minority as such, it would be headline news, (possible exception of Africa, perhaps less so post-Rwanda, but still, how often do you see articles on Shona treatment of Matabele?)
So, the govt. in New Delhi doesn't like Kalish, Dalits, Sinhalese, etc. Yes, news flash. We know this. Perhaps some crimes committed, sure. But disproportionate? Just beheadings alone, 150 in Saudi Arabia alone. Ten times more in Mexico. Human sacrifices? 100,000+/year in the DRC.
So, a passage in an ancient text of a religion is a threat to Mother India? Unlikely. Sounds like more ethnic targeting of their own enemies again to me.
In America (similar population size) There are over 4000 religiously motivated killings per year. That's twice racially motivated American killings.
In Israel, a population of only 6 million Jews kill 600 Palestinians/year. Not a recommendation for Yhwh over Kali.
Do check this out, it's interesting, if it will let me post the link this time.
kalima.tribe.net/thread/d33d4ea0-ba69-4cee-b1d3-e04b0156c661
Also definitely worth a look is a search on Herbert Marcuse of the 4th international and his Culture of Pessimism, which is the origin of modern Political Correctness.